Stan.
Later: OK, there were 39 comments over there to the top of the fourth inning, including lots by me - but let's review Stan's five questions to see if I am still happy with the answers:
Stan: Is Alan serious?
Answer: I am serious in the singular. People talk of “the craft beer community” but there is no such entity. There may be groups of clubs or pubs or even districts of towns but there is no one thing. There is also no virtual thing. Wishing won’t make it so.
Update: I buy the argument that Americans may be more comfortable with "communities" but I still suspect there is a desire to make it more than it is. For me, there is a lot of yapping in a pub in there and that, indeed, is just drinking. That is not a community. Often it is a symptom.
Stan: Do people consciously build beer-centric communities or does beer end up playing a larger role in an already existing community?
Answer: Beer fans or nerds overdo the influence of good beer by about a million fold. Beer fans may make personal circles or fan clubs or populate taverns but that does not make for a beer-centric community. A community is a diverse collection of many disinterested forces which form an organic unit that serves the needs of its residents. If beer does that for you, well, that is just sad.
Update: I think Stan concurred on this one when he commented "Alan – I agree about beer fans overrating the influence of the beer they favor." I also meant that a functioning whole community can't be supported primarily through the infatuation with beer. It's a hobby.
Stan: Do the beer communities of Asheville, N.C., and Bamberg, Germany, overlap or exist in separate spheres?
Answer: as they do not exist, this question is unanswerable. It might be helpful to recall, however, that Bamberg knows little and cares less about Asheville.
Update: well, if they exist they live in separate spheres... I will give them that.
Stan: Are brewers (or breweries) and beer enthusiasts part of the same beer community?
Answer: Ditto as to existence. You may want to consider if you are part of the same “community” with those who produces products you consume. I may like the farmer and the cheese maker but they are not invited over as they are what is called a stranger or, in rare cases, people I buy things from. If I start buying other cheeses from other people, I do not stop off to the last guys to explain why. I do tell my neighbours when I am moving away. Because they are actually in my community.
Update: I like the word "scene" for this one, suggested by Zac. I was once in a scene back when I was a kid. Scenes imply no relationship or leaders. Much more open phenomena. Brewers, breweries and beer enthusiasts can all be in the same scene. But if I think a brewer sucks or the prices are too high, I complain freely. In a community I would be beholden to protect one of my own. As an anti-competitive factor, this is bad for good beer.
Stan: Are brewers (or breweries) and beer enthusiasts part of the same community? My answer to that one is brewery owners need to understand how important that is. At least at the basic community level, that being the one in which show up to help move the furniture.
Answer: you may have a community where beer fans and breweries are both present. In fact, one would home that you must have a brewery in a community. But only in rare cases (brewing mill towns a la Burton 1850) is the community defined by the breweries. Brewers can have about as much influence on a community as any other industry. I live in an military town because 8,000 of about 60,000 jobs depend on it. Lots of people drink beer here but lots of people eat bread and drive mini-vans, too.
Update: I should have been clearer. You can't have a brewery without a community. Stuff's gotta be sold.
Comments
DanSmallbeer - September 2, 2011 2:56 AM
Well, that comment fest was exhausting.
Quite obviously the notion of a beer community or a craft beer community writ large is utter fucking nonsense.
You can see from reading the comments that half a dozen different definitions of community are in play. That said, of course there are groups of people with similar attitudes and perspectives who find each other — like the bloggers riding the comment horse — who are a community in that they care enough about that one topic to pitch in and stick around to see where it goes.
I think the "guy who sells you stuff" putdown is a bit blase though Alan. You remember your Marx, surely. Capitalism makes buyers and sellers of folk in a relation of production. I know at least two brewers here in Victoria who'd come and help me move house regardless of whether I bought much of their grog.
Steve Lamond - September 2, 2011 3:39 AM
I think beer bloggers do have a community in that they seek each other out when visiting other towns and organise meet up events like #twisups. Maybe that's easier in the UK. Everyone has separate interests in that they are unite dby their love of beer and want to see it thriving, in the same way that a traditional neighbourhood community stick together to stick up fo rthe interests of their vicinity. I think scene does describe the overlapping spheres of interest in the beer world better than community when looking at a global picture, but I'd say there is definitely community at the local and even nationl level in some countries
Alan - September 2, 2011 8:08 AM
"United"? You'd think the Nazis were doing a reverse D-Day!
So, by that definition, CAMRA is a community and not a club or organization.
Alan - September 2, 2011 8:10 AM
I am thinking "faction" or even "uppity faction" makes more sense than community. Remember, too, we are not including mass made lager drinker in any of this. It's a clique of hundreds upon hundreds if not tens.
Steve Lamond - September 2, 2011 8:55 AM
there's CAMRA members I've met all over the UK who would be happy to have me stay and vice versa. I like the sound of CAMRArmy... There's not enough active campaigners anymore, though taht is a different matter entirely...
Alan - September 2, 2011 9:07 AM
See, that works - like "scene" does. CAMRA is a movement. It runs like a public corporation or even a political party. It has an agenda and rules of order. Find me a community that runs on Roberts Rules of Order.
Stephen Beaumont - September 2, 2011 9:53 AM
Good god, man! You can't seriously expect a person to wade through that morass at Stan's blog, can you? Or, for that matter, the comment thread that won't die from a couple of posts ago on your site.
It's Friday, and a Friday of the last long weekend of the summer, at that. And I've taken a four day vow of optimism. Can't go breaking that, now.
But since it's right above where I'm typing, I will note that CAMRA is no more a movement than is any other citizen lobby group. It's an organization that charges membership fees and has a purpose and a goal, and of which I am a happy member. It was a movement once, but no longer.
Alan - September 2, 2011 12:58 PM
Oh, I know. I know. Friday. Friday. Friday. Happy is the independent consultant! Me? Five back to back meetings were set for me today.Five! Hard chairs and shoes that are harder.
Craig - September 2, 2011 2:38 PM
I want to be perfectly clear on this. I stopped reading you months ago.
Zing!
DanSmallbeer - September 2, 2011 4:35 PM
Beaumont. Regarding CAMRA. If it's the Canadian version you're speaking of, watch this space. I'm currently pushing for a few changes that might make things more interesting BC-side.
Stephen Beaumont - September 2, 2011 4:49 PM
Dan, I was talking about the British one.
Steve Gates - September 3, 2011 6:17 PM
Men, Whether it be faction, club, community or movement it does not matter, I much prefer drinking a real ale, stout or porter with another dude who shares the same sentiment. I am quite disturbed that my three sons all prefer the yellow fizzy stuff that you buy at a bargain price at the beer store, have you ever examined why older men prefer the real stuff and the next generation on our heels purchases Lakeport, Coors light and other equally unrewarding pig piss that sells for 24 cans for 24 dollars. I, seemingly , have no influence on these misguided miscreants. Any comments on how I can approach this dillemma??
Alan - September 3, 2011 8:54 PM
Have you tried bitter sarcasm?