Just a question while the entries to the The Good Beer Blog Flying Dog Summer Gonzo-thon contest come in. What do you think of kids being in bars with their family? When I moved to Ontario from Atlantic Canada in the early 1990s, it was quite the thing to see kids in central Canadian bars at mealtimes - even for me, the immigrants' kid who was in the pubs of Scotland when visiting the relatives. I was reminded of that by this post on family friendly pubs in Oakland CA from an on-line journal NovoMetro:
Perhaps it's a vestige of our rough-edged frontier past, or maybe it's a legacy of the temperance movement of the early 20th century. Whatever the origin, it's been accepted for decades in the United States that bars, pubs, taverns, saloons, and lounges are not the sorts of places one goes with a kid. It's different in Europe. Some English pubs in summer are full of families. In Central Europe, tots take ceramic pitchers to the local beer hall to fetch dad’s draft. In this country, the demand for kid-friendly pubs is still far greater than the supply, but Oakland has a couple of places where junior won’t draw dirty looks from childless hipsters or run afoul of an angry drunk on his sixth Jack and Coke.Once upon a time, I had to deal with to a Vermont waiter's refusal to get me a beer, phrased only by the little git's statement "this is a family restaurant" and blank stare, with one of my better comebacks: my family includes beer. But we now know that the laws of Wisconsin (you can find a detailed .pdf article on the law here) are among the most freedom based, allowing parents to purchase alcohol for their children to consume in their presence - something that even I might wonder about. Yet even today we read that Ruk back east in PEI about how far a stunned law can go when a licensed concert was barred to his whole family for fear that his boy would see...you know...someone drinking a beer. Frankly, now "family friendly restaurant" has come full circle as it's often code for a place that wouldn't scare the average person with foul bathrooms or that certain sense of amateur unorganized pugilist club meets there. As it should. Just because I want a craft beer shouldn't mean that the family has to sit the car, should it?
Comments
Craig Stacey - July 28, 2007 12:32 PM
While I see your point, let me raise a counter. One of the nice things about going to a pub, for me, is that I know it's a place I can go where I'm assured not to be surrounded by children. Just about any restaurant I go to these days is subject to unsupervised and misbehaved children running rampant, and it gets a little old for me. I like that I can have a favorite watering hole that's an adults only spot.
Saying this, I'm forced to point out that my favorite spot right now does allow children, since it's technically a restaurant. It hasn't stopped me from going, but the kids tend not to be loud or unruly. Would that it was more common...
Alan - July 28, 2007 12:41 PM
That is a good point. I have been maniacal in return in my imposition of "restaurant manners" in our family. That is the highest standard. Unsupervised children are a nightmare and now the object of our kids disgust.
Boak - July 29, 2007 2:49 PM
Very interesting question for us Brits. I'm childless but don't really object to children running around (even if they are a bit noisy) - but I'm quite unusual in this in Britain, where the standard thing to do is to tut loudly. As a result, families often don't feel comfortable coming out with the kids. It's changed a lot towards child tolerance in the last twenty years (I still remember being banished outside the pub with a packet of crisps aged five!) but we're along way behind the rest of Europe.
In Spain, it's common to see kids out at 11 o clock at night, running around pavement cafes. That's the extreme, but I've never been anywhere else in Europe where people with kids are made to feel so unwelcome (in our polite British way, of course!)
PS Your "are you human" test on your comments page is way too hard. I keep failing.
Chapka - July 31, 2007 9:21 AM
My family spends a lot of time in brewpubs on the East Coast, and I have yet to see one that doesn't allow kids--many even have kids' menus. The good beer bars around here usually have pretty good food as well, and it's not unusual to see them full of strollers. And even in Pennsylvania, home of some of the most backwards liquor laws in the country, all of the brewpubs have kids' menus and highchairs.
As for letting your kids drink at home...I think it's a fine idea and wish it was legal in this state. I'd much rather my kids learned about responsible alcohol consumption at home, and learned to appreciate drinking as something other than what they're going to encounter at college. Remember, we're not talking about slipping bourbon in a baby bottle here: In Pennsylvania, if I let my 20-year-old child have a taste of my homebrew when he's visiting from college, I can go to jail for a year. For that matter, if I give him a non-alcoholic beer, I can go to jail for 90 days. A non-alcoholic beer!
me - July 31, 2007 1:38 PM
It would be wonderful thing if freakin yuppies left their brats at home so I can belch and swear in peace.
Wilson - August 1, 2007 11:09 AM
I think it's important for parents to take their kids to the pub. They need to train them to behave there (and everywhere). Parents need to de-taboo things like alcohol and bars. They need to model responsible behavior or they can expect exceedingly irresponsible behavior down the road. Akin to potty training, a little effort now saves us from wiping a teenager's butt in the future. It's frustrating that more parents don't do their job. There are many issues as important as potty training. It impacts us all. I don't mind a little noise in a bar, but I do mind it in line at the grocery store.
As you might expect, I take my two boys to the pub. I'd rather teach my kids about things like this than leave it to teachers, peers and other knobs within the community. I need to serve as a ballast for skewed views. As for the bar, we're more likely to show up in the afternoon after a hike, or for lunch, so belching, swearing, excessive smoke and adults acting like children aren't such issues. But if they are, I view it as a teaching opportunity.
Like Alan, I view beer as, if not a part of my family, part of what makes my family what it is.
I appreciate very much one family dinner long ago when my Gramps offered me a glass of wine. I didn't much care for it. But I later learned that I did much care for beer. And I care so much that I'm going to teach my kids about it (because I also care so much for them).
Jessica - October 17, 2007 5:14 AM
I think, a pub isn't a good place for a kid. My opinion, if you are going to a pub - leave your child at home. Think of your children, do you think they have a lot of fun watching their parents drinking beer? I guess, no...